Create Freelancer 2

Skav - that Demo is far from ugly. You deserve a massive pat on the back for the work so far &amp; every encouragement to keep going. It´s awesome dude &amp; I think it´s <b>VERY </b> pretty. Shockwave is powerful stuff to do things like that &amp; I hope to be adding your game to my links one day. Can I do an online interview with you some time as the basis for an article on a mini-game creator? (see link in sig) As to M/S produing FL2 I also think it´s a non-starter. &amp; as to the FL community producing it ... well, go guys. There´s certainly enough talent. I´m just beginning to learn how to code now so can offer support, encouragement and imagination (got several ideas for plotlines - as well as clever role-playing tricks to make it seem more of an open choice thing instead of stuck following a set of very narrow no-choice situations). To be honest - it´s a very exciting idea and I wait with interest any developements. The statement below is true. The statement above is false. <A href=´http://gamerfuzz.blogspot.com´ Target=_Blank>Fuzzy-Not fluffy</a>

i do agree that that shockwave game is excellent work, but i´m afraid shockwave won´t be able to handle freelancer 2. Its just not possible. I say we look into some of those open-source 3D engines. That would be a great start. I also say that we should at first simply reverse-engineer freelancer and make it so that our game engine can play freelancer without much of a hitch (although we shouldn´t use that stupid cmp format). From there, we can make whatever changes we want. Like a universe that ACTUALLY evolves, changing prices, auto-targetting turrets, 999999999999999999999999999 limit on money <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>, etc. But thats just me. What about the rest of you?

BTW, unless we want to suffer the same fate as Descent 4, we either need microsoft´s permission to call our game Freelancer 2, or we´ll have to call it &quot;Infinite Universes&quot; or something stupid like that <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> *EDITS OUT SIG* (hope finalday didn´t notice that one :<img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>) Edited by - Blackhole2001 on 8/15/2005 9:04:31 PM

Good point, I was just discussing that with someone. We would have the same problem with using any Fl content as well, right? Such as models, textures, character names, ect. Since it´s all copyright, we would have to start completely from scratch? Thus being a totally different game..... Is that correct? Anyone? &quot;I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We´ve created life in our own image. &quot; ~Stephen Hawking ~

i believe it is - even using the same names would constituent a copyright infringement, most especially if anyone made money. did anyone notice that signature 2,534 on the petition is Bill Gates? <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

LOL Heres what i propose, we make a game engine, and call it some &quot;codename&quot; like Parallel Choices, and we make it so that it CAN run on Freelancer´s data files. It doesn´t use them, it just CAN use them. By doing this we avoid all copyright infringement. Even some psycho lawyer (like Jack Thompson <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>) would have to admit that we didn´t do anything wrong <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> It would also help if we made it opensource and free. EDIT: Another thing, we´ll need a new storyline, and unfortunatly, i don´t think we can go with the original plans of continueing the FL storyline because of, yet again, copyright problems. Heck, we can´t even use the same universe. We need a new plot, a new universe, a new everything. FINALDAY: Oops, usually i do, musta had a brain malfunction <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Blackhole2001 on 8/16/2005 6:35:59 PM

I´ve been reading all this and to me the problem seems to be that you got no good engine. And, as a matter of fact, I happen to have a state-of-the-art engine. I were planning on making a game like EVE Online just free, but as for now, I don´t have time anymore. So, I have an engine which could be used, altough all copyright would be mine; I won´t give a way a creation like this. According the the Swedish Law, this engine is already under a copyright, go figure. A few of the things this engine could support: - A hybrid between EVE Online and Homeworld 2 graphics - Massive evolving universe, 15000 systems is max - 3D movement in space - Online playing, pretty much MMORPG style If anyone´s interested, send a mail to casper.orillion@gmail.com

Gonna have to call it &quot;Reelancer&quot; ´cos there´s no &quot;F&quot; in Reelancer. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle><img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle><img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Inventing storylines &amp; universes is no problem <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Can´t code them though :´(

itd be sick if microsoft made freelancer 2 coz id get double addicted to freelancer and freeelancer n freelancer 2...best game game ive played in awhile im praying all goes welll n ill b seeing freelancer 2 on shelves in stores <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>.....

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>Any C++ programmers out there? <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Probably, but I would recommend that C++ is the last thing you think about using: <A href=´http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/Invention_of_Cplusplus.shtml´ Target=_Blank>Click here</a>

Orillion... That game engine is amazing. I have e-mailed you already about the specifics. Hope you reply soon <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> As for using C++ (and i´m including C++.net), almost ALL games out there are programmed in C++. Freelancer, AOM, EVE, you name it. All in C++, although some of the oldies are in C. The only other realistic alternative is vb.net, not VB6, vb.net, as it is powerful enough to handle our game. It also sorta depends on what the game engine is programmed as. Although even if the game engine is programmed in C++, i´m pretty certain that we can interface it with vb.net, so we still have options <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

Not knocking ANYONE´S work AT ALL. (But I hope your game engine doesn´t use C++ ) I realise how widespread the use of C++ is. But hang on, how buggy is Freelancer (cannot comment on the other examples having never played them)? I know it to be VERY buggy (don´t get me or any other ex or current admin started on it). Now I know it uses C++ and the history behind C++ (in the link above) I know why. I´ll bet a fair chunk of the three year development was about trying to fix the stuff that the C++ programming made a mess of. Windows 95 also used C++. What a great product that was. I don´t know about you, but reading that interview (and, particularly the interviewer´s reaction, &quot;We won´t be publishing any of this...&quot; ) had the pieces tumbling into place for me. All the missing stuff in Freelancer? They couldn´t make it work. Please do yourselves a massive favour and use something else - there ARE alternatives and options as you rightly point out. Using something not designed to be a total pain in the rear end to use in the first place (as stated in so many words by the designer himself) would seem a wise beginning, no matter how widespread the use of it is. I have no doubt it´ll do what you want but that article is covered in quoteable lines. I´ll give a couple out for free. &quot;Stroustrup: Well, it´s been long enough, now, and I believe most people have figured out for themselves that C++ is a waste of time but, I must say, it´s taken them a lot longer than I thought it would.&quot; &amp; the best one: &quot;Stroustrup: You know, when we had our first C++ compiler, at AT&amp;T, I compiled ´Hello World´, and couldn´t believe the size of the executable: 2.1MB&quot; 2.1MB to open a box on a screen that says &quot;Hello World&quot; in text? I´m just beginning to learn how to code now, but even I know that that´s bad. Imagine downloading it on dial-up and that´s what you get. I´ll not push the case any further (was hoping Stroustrop would do that himself when you read the article). I honestly think this is a great project, one well worth persuing and I´m up for helping it in any way I can whichever way you decide to go with it. I can offer the benefit and wisdom that comes with 30-odd years of game play in many different circumstances and forms, including managing profit-making game-playing companies. That´s my first bit of advice though. C++ was written as a con. Avoid it wherever possible. p.s. I still like the &quot;No &quot;F&quot; in Reelancer.&quot; line. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - FuzzBuck Fuzz on 8/18/2005 8:10:49 PM

*sigh* i HATE C++, but since games usually use C++ because of its speed, i just naturally thought we´d use C++. I myself program in VB6 and VB.net, so if Orillion gave me his engine (which hopefully is either programmed in VB or C++.net) i could see if i can interface with it. If i can, than we´re off to making a game. On the topic of the game, last night i thought of something. We want a truly evolving universe right? So i´d say we spend a lot of time on how the game evolves, randomly creates new systems, ships, and weapons, choosing from our &quot;content&quot;. This way, we don´t make lots of systems, we make lots of possible content for systems. If someone wants a lot of systems, they just start a game and run it at hyperspeed, watching the universe evolve before their very eyes, systems get colonised, pirates overrun them, pirates get obliterated, new ships introduced, new weapons invented, all of it. This way players can see the world evolving, and they can influence it. I´ve thought about it a lot, and i say it could work. It´d just take a lot of programming. For instance, system creation. Whenever someone enters a system that has never been explored, it is randomly generated. First the system type is randomly chosen from our database of &quot;types&quot;, then random alternations, again using a database of content, is made, and then, since no one´s discovered it before (not even pirates), it will be completely uninhabited. The background would be created by keeping track of very visible &quot;landmarks&quot;, like nebulas, and thus automatically creating a background which fits in with nearby systems. Then by using the same nebula tracking, we determine if the system should be in a nebula, among other things. Then random placement of jumpholes and a few other things, and we´re set. Non player ship creation would be very simple. the program takes the current technology levels (like biology, FTL, among other groups) and determines which ship in our massive database of ships should be invented next. However, players are able to customly create ships through a ship editor, using the latest technology, even make completely new m0dels in a friendly in-game designer. NOTE: Any new content designed by players is automatically transferred to everyone else Weapons are the same as ships, and the player method of creating them is similar, except it should be more like chemistry. Add a little plasma there, maybe a trigger their, and test it. If it blows up, or overheats, etc, you´d have to redesign it. The overall evolution of a system would be the game keeping track of every single battle, judging the losses, and keeping track of the total population and how much each population increases, if a base is blown up, the pirate presence would decline in that area, although the presence in other areas would spike as those pirates found refuge in the other stations. IF a bunch of players completely eliminate pirates, then there is an explosion of activity. But the police force goes away, and then if the players aren´t there the next time the pirates attack, they almost obliterate civilization. If there is a heavily populated pirate system, to the point of them building trade lanes (or whatever we decide), they would slowly start becoming more civilized. All of this is definatly possible, the hard part is just keeping track of all the data. But you´d have to admit that it would be very, very cool. Thoughts? Edited by - Blackhole2001 on 8/19/2005 9:17:01 AM

&quot;NOTE: Any new content designed by players is automatically transferred to everyone else&quot; You might want to be careful with this--allow other players to see the ship, yes. But don´t give them the option to buy that ship themselves--if you do, the game will quickly be overrun with hundreds of thousands of possible ship choices, and selecting what type of ship you want will be a royal pain.

Definatly. Unless they market the ship, and then you can make it buyable. But of course that would only be on the station that its buyable on. Then we avoid choosing your ship being a pain. ESPECAILLY if we make it so the players can vote on ships, weapons, etc. and give them RATINGS. If we do that, then it becomes a lot easier to filter out all the junk that will accumulate.

Well, this is rather surprising! Freelancers fans and fanatics have been calling for modders to construct a sequel for a vertable eternity, and they have finally responded. Still, has anyone ever speculated on the purchase of the FL license from microsoft by an ambitious developer?

Hate to break the news to you but the space sim has long taken a back seat to FPS and such. The amount it would no doubt cost to buy the FL licence, the amount of money it would take for a sequel to be made traded off against the profit the developer wouldn´t make = not even a ambitious developer would purchase the licence. Our hope rests with the enthusiastic posters above or with MS and DA i´m afraid.

i don´t think they would remake such a good game

Who said anything about that? We´re the fans, we´re fanatic, we´re crazy, what else do you need? <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> We are going to see if we can get permission from microsoft (without paying, good luck to us... *sigh*) to use the Freelancer name. If not (and this is highly likely) we´ll use an alternate name, and then just make the game off that. MS and DA are <b>NOT </b> going to make another freelancer. Ever. The game just didn´t make enough money. So we will. Screw you MS!

Absolutely spot on with those game ideas above BH. I particularly like the dynamic aspects. A game environment that´s not static. That´s how you keep players for decades. Ask anyone into MUD systems. Look at <A href=´http://www.furcadia.com/´ Target=_Blank>Furcadia</a> &amp; see how many players they attract - and keep if there´s any doubt Microsofts mistake was marketting (ok, they made alot of mistakes, but marketting FL was one). You have to understand the player base that will be attracted by such a game. What they did was aim it at the &quot;combat player&quot; - the guy who plays FPS almost exclusively, doesn´t want to chat to anyone while doing it and sees every second not killing things as wasted time. There´s a massive attraction in FL for this kind of player but much more to the game. There´s role playing elements, a good plot (for a video game) and massive things for the &quot;social player&quot; with many very strong communities arising from this game. The answer is, of course to market your finished product at ALL types of players if it has the elements to attract them. FL did and M/S missed out. Which may mean they do allow you to have the licence, or it may mean they don´t. Lets not forget the political ramifications (a thread not long ago). They might want to get rid of this potential hot potato. Good luck to you indeed. On the game side, would it be possible to include an element of FPS? On the planets/larger bases there could be missions available that require you to go on foot or in a ground vehicle rather than in a spaceship. They don´t have to be long or in depth. But imagine the excitement of wandering into an unknown system, landing your ship on an unknown planet and exploring it, fighting off the natural alien predators etc. I also think care should be taken to follow certain current philosophical/physical beliefs. Like if you encounter one complex alien life form, there will be many others. Possibly an infinite amount. So meeting the Nomads and nothing else in FL is really not that possible/likely. Ok, maybe they are the only intelligent lifeforms, but if they are there, the universe should be teeming with life of all kinds. In theory anyway. Either way, the ability to run around and shoot things would be a phenominally good addtition to a space sim.