US Kazaa lawsuit

Can´t you just say "my father"? cause you two are siblings and everything...

my father is very much alive <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> my sisters father was my stepfather hope this clears it up for you.

Ahh I see.

Just wanted to mention that a lot of lesser known artists out there actually make more money because of P2P software because people can actually listen to their stuff, prompting them to go out and buy the CD. True, some of them won´t buy the CD, but if you make more sales with file sharing than without, then it´s good for everybody, right?

i dont think it is stealling in the technical sense, if i downlaod a peice of software or music the compnay that produced it dosent lose any money becasue i wasnt gonna buy it anyway so they cant claim a loss

Stealing is getting something you don´t deserve. You don´t deserve it if you didn´t pay for it.

@ the pirate with respect to your point sir,you are dead wrong,the act of listening to music that you have no matter in what format it is in,is theft from the owner of the copyright on it,that is the nature of intellectual property. i am not tellin

The concept of ´what you deserve´ is quite shaky in the liberal society. Do people deserve welfare? Or, on the flip side, do people who pay taxes to fund welfare not deserve that money?

Look from my cynical point of view I see it all like this ( feel VERY free to flame me repeatedly over this ) If its there, and you can get it without much effort of consecuences GO FOR IT! I mean its there right , and well lol why spend good money if u can spend a few pesos in power for the same thing...

That´s an entire different issue. A larger whole agree that they do (or do not) deserve welfare (which is usually an easy way around laziness, though this is an entirely different issue altogether). One person cannot say that they &quot;deserve&quot; to get something free, while the people who own it say they do not. See?

I dont really use Kazaa, and i only used napster a few times, theres just somthing about going to a store and buying cds, call me strange if you want <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

Think about it this way: In this country, as in most others, monopolies are illegal. But how can we say that monopolies are disallowed even when a monopoly has formed as the result of completely legit business decisions, on the basis of its being simply more efficient than competitors? Clearly they were not lazy, and yet they are not entitled to the fruit of their efforts. Why? Because the social welfare is at stake (not in the redistribution of taxes sense, but in the economic utility sense). Less utility is gained overall, whether it be the utility of the monopoly´s executives or its consumers, when monopolies are allowed to exist. Record companies are intuitively understood as having monopolies on their unique material, but if greater overall utility is gained by having some people pay and others &quot;pirate&quot;, what properly distinguishes this case from cases in which monopolies are stricken on the basis that overall social utility is being lost?

go ahead and flame me but i stand on my opinion for me to download a program or music dosent cost the companies anything becuase i wasnt gonna by the trashy stufff anyway. there are reasons behind my opinions i wanna be able to try out software before i spend my hard earned dollars on it and most demos dont do most programs justice and my reason for downloading music is in protest of the ridiculous cd prices i know from experience that in the quanties that most cds are made in it cost less then 8 cents to produce( stamp print and case) and the artists might!!!!!!!!!! see 50 cents from each cd an bastard companies like sony make a huge profit on others intellecutal property so i say F*Ck u sony you can have my mp3s when u come and get them from my pc the speed limit may be 55mph but it is impossible to read at 170mph

even though record comanies do make large profits they sometimes take big risks maria carey +emi thats 20million they wont see again,again the pirate i understand your point however at the risk of repeating myself i will simply say this if you have not got the means to buy software/music then using warez is theft,if you have a problem admiting thats what it is (as is the impression i get from your posts) thats something i cant help you with,i can however say this if there were no record companies who would make the cds? who would distribute them ? who would try to protect the artist copyright in the form of contracts etc if things were left to the warez boyz it would be anarchy and no one would produce anything for there would be no living to be made from it. you justify your thefts by saying its a protest but with respect sir it does not fit any definition of protest that i have heard of,are you chaining your self to a tree to stop a road being built or marching against global captitalism no in this case you are not are you you are using someone elses work for your own pleasure and i say again that is theft pure and simple. oh and by the way you say that the record companies only give a pittance to the artist per cd well my sister wants that 50cents its her right which i imagine you would begrudge her having ?. again point made later.....

Most of the time, the major music companies don´t protect artists´ copyrights, they usurp them. And frankly I´d rather pay the artist $1 per song directly than buy a $16-18 CD of which a pittance of that goes to the artist.

*Ding* alright! Break. Go to your corners, think about your points (some already have) and come back rational... and remember. mickey loves ya! *puts two pennies down on table* here´s my two cents on the matter we have some distinct members of society here The pirate (not just by name): who will get anything for free... and why not? The moralistic: we have to pay for everything... even if we get ripped off in the process The middle road: Sure i use kazaa.. but only as a try-before-you-buy. if i like it, i buy it, if i don´t, i delete it three factions... and guess what? all have relevant, logical points. (RARE!) and here´s mine. My name is Ryan, and i´m a P2P-holic. i´ve got a seperate HD for mp3´s... warez out the wazoo... i like free things, but only when they´re distributed as free... but i have no problem downloading the one song i hear off the radio (hell i could tape it if i wanted to) if all the other songs on the album are filler... what does this all mean? i´m pretty much multi-faction here we can go round and round in circles here, but there are a few solid facts. intelectual property theft does not equal profit loss. the pirate who downloaded the warez wasn´t going to buy it anyway. for those who think piracy kills profit i ask you this &quot;Where would microsoft be today without piracy?&quot; in the dawn of windows, where there were dozens of operating systems being developed. owners of windows liked what they saw. and gave a copy to their friends. and they copied to their friends. I got my copy 5th hand! i´d bet my left testicle (the right one´s a keeper) that the number of windows 3.1 users in it´s heyday was about 10x the number of units sold. Piracy got windows where it is today. score one for the pirate however... laws state that piracy is illegal. and we can all agree that stealing is wrong. dodge vipers are expensive, but that does not give me the right to steal one. this applies to software as well the fact that windows XP costs 300 dollars does not give me the right to steal a copy. the difference here is that I AM going to be needing windows anyway. Score one for morals That being said, me and countless others should have paid a fine/served jailtime after having MS press charges for piracy. i don´t know about you, but being nailed by MS woud leald me to boycott any MS product. would windows have survived if MS nailed every pirate copy? who knows, but my left testicle is on the line, so i´ll say no, MS would not nearly be as powerful as it is today without the pirates (add or subtract one point for pirates, depending on your personal preference) as for middle of the road types. you are using illegal means to protect yourselves from being screwed over by money-hungry business that spew out &quot;Crap-ware&quot; to bolster the bottom line. However, you are also using illegal means to try new things you never would have if forced to buy. and now have new appreciation for said artist/company/person. now that artists daughter can get her 50 cents for tuition. I don´t know about you, but i feel the ends justify the means. (score one for middle-roaders) *looks down at table* ok, maybe that was my $29.95 worth... but you got it for free. Does piracy help or hinder? There is no right or wrong answer here. it´s up to each of us to decide for ourselves. Therefore STOP FLAMING! ...Just a random thought from a random mind

Here we go <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> intelectual property theft does not equal profit loss. the pirate who downloaded the warez wasn´t going to buy it anyway. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> So unless piraters directly take the profits from Microsoft right out of Bill Gates´ hands, they´re not losing profit? I guarantee you if you were the person making a product and people were stealing it, you´d say you were losing profit and wouldn´t care whether or not they were going to buy it or not. Who knows how many people would have bought your product if they couldn´t have stolen it? <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> Piracy got windows where it is today. score one for the pirate <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Speculation. Genius business strategy and intelligence got Windows (and Microsoft) where it is today, which can be called fact. BTW, it sounds like I´m taking this snip out of context, but I did read the rest, but I cut it out to save space. <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> the fact that windows XP costs 300 dollars does not give me the right to steal a copy. the difference here is that I AM going to be needing windows anyway. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Hey, come back down to Earth, you might fall and hurt yourself! You do not need Windows any more than you need a Dodge Viper. You need clothing, food, shelter, a source of income, and more, but definitely not Windows. I survived for quite a long time before I got Windows. <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> but being nailed by MS woud leald me to boycott any MS product. would windows have survived if MS nailed every pirate copy? who knows <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> I guess you could get irrational if you got arrested/sued for pirating MS´s property. I´d also like to learn why you think that having people pirate your software is good for business. Generally, getting money is the best thing for your business to survive, but I guess losing it helps too. <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> and now have new appreciation for said artist/company/person. now that artists daughter can get her 50 cents for tuition. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Puhleeze. Genuinely ask yourself how many people actually bother to go out and buy an album after they´ve downloaded it. Sure, some people say they do, but look at the countless thousands who have gigabytes upon gigabytes of MP3s just to run a file server on IRC, and don´t even listen to them! <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> Therefore STOP FLAMING! <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Is it not possible to have a discussion where the participants don´t 100% agree on the subject without being called flamers? A flamer says something like &quot;OMFG you ass you opinion is sh** you don´t know anything, go back to your mommas basement and wash your greasy hair virgin!&quot; or something like that. Not much of that goes on around here, and the only flame I can think of recently was when for example Natrunner went apes**t and started a thread in the FL forum titled &quot;One Angry Fan!&quot; and then later said his argument was not emotional. Hehe, that was funny (and fun!) <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

I think piracy is wrong. But I do it. Why? I don´t do it because it might make profit for anyone but me. I steal music and software. I can´t justify myself other than the fact that I´m stingy and lazy and I can get away with it. So if you do steal, don´t try to rationalize or justify your acts. You can´t.

I do think that copying something is stealing, and I dont will not say i havnt got any copied programs, cause i would be lying. But I kinda draw a line at what I copy and what I dont, (As I said before, call me strange if you like <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>) I dont copy games or music, although i did use napster and I did download a few tracks, I stopped that a long time ago. The only things I copy are things I cant afford, but I really need, I know its wrong but at least I dont deny it.

the reason i belive piracy CAN (not always.. but possible)be good for business is one thing. geting you name/product out in the public... generate awareness. for example. take a walk down to the local cd store and browse the isles. if you can say that you know of even 10% of the bands there, i´ll give you a cookie. new bands are formed all the time, and the biggest problem is getting your name out. i believe that spreading your music out via the internet is a great tool that could help you get noticed. is this speculation? of course it is. this is all speculation without a phonebook worth of statistics to read off of. i relate what i say to personal experience. you know what got me into freelancer type games? piracy... my buddy brought over his elite disk and i was hooked. so i went and bought a copy myself. ditto for privateer. i can´t dictate the actions of other people and maybe i´m the only one who got elite and priv this way... who knows? But in my experience, those who have pirated and liked, bought the software/music. if they didn´t like, they deleted. as for tach saying that maybe losing money is good for business too, i´m not sure whether that was sarcasm or not (i´m thinking it was, but correct me if i´m wrong) i think it can be. lets just say that some company releases a title for the sole reason of making money and screw the consumers. the game is bug filled and just terrible. pirates d/l the game, find it to be utter crap, and post everywhere they can that the game is, in fact, crap. people read the posts and don´t buy the game. this will severely affect the bottom line of the shovelware co. and either force them to create a quality game, or force them out of business. once again, this is speculation. but IMO every comment is speculation unless you got a footnote quoting a verified stat PS tach... i really enjoy these discussions. it keeps me sane <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> ...Just a random thought from a random mind