Posts by Gibbon

I'm missing your point here, what are those images supposed to prove? Have you tried it in game? If the sur was shrink wrapped, you wouldn't be able to fly through sections, you would simply bounce off. Only way round that in the case of say a base model is to use the phantom physics command. The OBJ->SUR converter makes form fitting surs, end of.

Here's proof. If you don't know how to use the converter, then follow the tutorial i put up but please stop saying it makes shrink wrapped surs because it doesn't. Everyone else is making form fitting surs with this utility, you are just misunderstanding what you are seeing.

Videos to prove my point.

YouTube
- ‪Kanal von Wargibbon‬‏

YouTube
- ‪Kanal von Wargibbon‬‏

I'm assuming you've tested them as npc ships, as dockables not just as flyable? Helps to add in the thruster, mine and cm hardpoints as well as there have been issues if you don't. Following that tutorial guarantees a fully working sur with 99% of models

Quote from AestheticDemon

Well, I've given up on the 1.3 exporter, I'm afraid... I did get it running with the new dlls, but...

I ended up using the obj-sur converter suggested by Swat, all it produces is a shrinkwrap mesh rather than a nice form fitted sur

You're actually mistaken with that. It's as form fitting as you can get, it includes holes in models you can fly through, thinking Enterprise shapes and so on. Yes there is what looks like a large shrinkwrap sur but it's not, trust me on this, i've coded about 50 models so far and they are totally form fitting, including bases.

I agree and kind of proving my point. There's a DX9 plugin that the guys making the new Star Wars mod have developed that will include specular mapping, i know this because i've seen it and it's very impressive. They say they will make this available for everyone when they release their mod and i see no reason why they won't so i look forward to that when it comes out.

The models in my ELITE ship pack for example all have specualr mapping, or more to the point i have the textures to make that happen and with that on they will look awesome. The guy i got the models from made them for another game which already has specular mapping and they look phenomenal.

I remember having this discussion about hi poly models with some other people elsewhere and while hi poly models are nice and show off modelling skill, from where i'm standing, or sitting for that matter, low poly models are better assuming you can make a truly excellent texture. It's surprising what can be done with a decent texture.

With regards to the above model, all the cargo pods could be done as texture thereby saving loads of polys. I can show you videos and piccies of models where you'll think, omg that must have at least 10-20k polys when in reality most of them are around the 1k mark, all because the textures are to die for.

I'm not criticising your model btw, as it looks great and i'm sure the finished article will do the same, just pointing out you can achieve the same result with a decent texture without having to worry about polygons.

Have a look at these which demonstrate my point: gunships-showcase

Sci-Fi Gunships collection

Here's the tutorial made by Ben_Kai for Schmackbolzen's excellent sur making utility

MODEL PREPARATION

1. Import CMP into MS3D. "auto load", is the only box I check. "Import hardpoints" is optional

2. Use DirectX Mesh tools to remove some triangles. Move the slider, for most models it will only reduce by 5 - 10%. Click the save button that has the - sign.

(Note on above: If the model is low poly to start with, you can ignore 2 and move onto 3)

3 . Export as .OBJ. You can try to import back into MS3D and use Dx tools again, but I usually just reduce more triangles with LithUnwrap. I've noticed that using DX tools numerous times begins to degrade the model to the point where your SUR will not be very from fitting. For small fighters this is fine. But for larger ships and stations I think It kind of defeats the
purpose. I guess you could delete some triangles manually inside the mesh but I'm not a modeler so I dont attempt it.

Close MS3D.

LITHUNWRAP

4. Open .OBJ with LithUnwrap. Go to File - Model - Open. Go to Tools - Optimize model. Check all 3 boxes, click OK.

5. Save mesh as .OBJ. Go to File - Model - Save. Make sure format is .OBJ.

6. Import .OBJ back into MS3D.

7. Go to Edit - Select All. Go to Vertex - Weld Together. Make sure you dont skip this step or your SUR could have huge holes....

8. Export as .OBJ

OBJ CONVERTER

9. Select your .OBJ. I leave 1st option at default. Check 2nd and 3rd boxes then input your hardpoints. I will add that on bases i haven't had to add in hardpoints. Once sur is generated, close this program

FL MODEL TOOL

10. Open flmodeltool, import the cmp, DO NOT MODIFY ANYTHING and simply save it. This should prevent the model from going invisible when you turn away from it.

11. Job done!

Thanks to Ben_Kai for the tutorial, if i can use it then anybody can.

Programs used, Milkshape, Lithunwrap, FLModelTool

Read more:Gizmo Studios Forum - OBJ -> SUR converter tutorial

I've a tutorial for how to use the SUR->OBJ converter, it's not simply a case of throw in the model and press make sur, there are a few things that need to be done to make working surs. I'll post it up in the tutorial section. I use this tool a lot and it works on 99% of models.

Yes, FLAC costs $40. It is difficult to get hold of and you have done the right thing by going to the Eagle Utopia forum. The posts on there are newer than you think as the FLAC section is hidden. FLAC does things FLHook can't, that said, Hook is your only option these days due to Eagle basically giving up on FL. I have FLAC but it's no use sharing it as it can only be used on one PC.

Problem fixed, vmesh error on my end, thanks to adoxa for helping me trace the problem, least we know its not the plugin

LOL, you really need to stop jumping to conclusions PB as for one thing i haven't said anything about how these are going to be used or their purpose in the mod. This is concept stuff we're dealing with here, never been done before stuff, so let's get that working first.

Secondly, as an assault weapon against capships they are ideal. Launch them from miles away, turn and run. The Hades has 4 of those torps as has the Kamov. If you remember SL, then all the bombers launched from a great distance. This isn't about mounting as many weapons as possible and doing what many mod makers do by adding 8-10 guns to fighters and missiles with unlimited ammo, that just drives me nuts. This will be more about utilising what you have and more importantly, using it for the purpose intended. It will only take 6 or 8 of these torps, 3 or 4 players, to take down a large capship, so the torps will do the job.

I'm sure a solution is near as Adoxa is a very clever individual and i'm sure a solution will be there. All he needs is feedback and seeing i was the first, at least this way he knows something isn't quite right because atm, nobdy can mount more than one external launch system without having issues using the new plugin.

At this time anything is possible. Adoxa asked for the files on this so they are waiting for him next time i catch him on msn, so he can take a look

Video highlight of the issue. Further experimentation is leading me to the conclusion there's an issue. It seems everything works well with only one of the torps mounted. As soon as you add a second torpedo it looks like the plugin is calculating the destruction of all the weapons of that type and if the first one is destroyed as it obviously is on firing, it assumes the second one is also. These were tested with the current version of the plugin and damage_per_fire = -1

I even created a second weapon identical to the first but renamed everything and it still assumed that was destroyed before i even fired it as i also ended up with the same problem of only the effect showing on the second model. Seems the damage is passed onto the same hp_type which is obviously not correct, at least to my eyes. Surely it should be per weapon mounted and not per weapon type?

I did. That's what i can't figure out, why does it work fine when i fire the first torpedo but not the second one?

Firstly thanks for the update. Secondly the debris doesn't always spin. There's an ini edit to get round the problem as my solution seems to create the same problem i'm having now with your updated file. If you look at the Galahad model in this thread, you'll see it has two large torpedoes mounted. In game the ship doesn't have these, you buy the torpedo and mount it, and the launcher shares the same model as the munition so it all looks right.

Now when i fire torp #1, everything goes as expected, the torp launches and heads off into the distance, the launcher destroys itself and obviously the launcher model as well, leaving a nice empty space where the torpedo used to be, so far so good.

When i launch the second torp, this is where it all goes strange, the torpedo itself disappears with only the torpedo engine effect working, and this flies off into the distance. The launcher vanishes as expected but seems to take the torp model with it. This is with damage_per_fire set to -1 as per the instructions unless i misunderstood.

Now my solution in contrast was to use the explosion instant effect and attachit to the launcher which achieves the same thing but i still get this disappearing 2nd torpedo model issue.

Code here:

HP_child = HPConnect
hit_pts = 1
explosion_resistance = 1
debris_type = debris_normal
parent_impulse = 20
child_impulse = 80
volume = 0
mass = 10
hp_gun_type = hp_gun_special_4
damage_per_fire = -1
power_usage = 0
refire_delay = 0
muzzle_velocity = 15
toughness = 1
projectile_archetype = galahad_torpedo_ammo
dry_fire_sound = fire_dry
separation_explosion = sever_debris

Now it could be a setting i've put in wrong and just not seeing it or it's something else. Confused now.

@ PB

That's fair enough, i was under the impression you meant concept and not the video.

@ spuder

You have a couple of options regarding models. Firstly, you make your own and impress the hell out of everyone with your amazing talent and texturing skills. Secondly, do what myself and hoards of others do, partly due to lack of skill in the 3D modelling department or sheer laziness, trawl around the web for free 3D models preferably with textures that you can use for your mod. I've come across some awesome models like this which is why i've released as many ship packs as i have. It's amazing what you can find. Handy tip regarding your project, take your time, get it right, if you get stuck, ask for help. Plenty of old hands around to offer assistance

Quote from PolarBear

Its good and stuff but theres one problem: Its not Freelancer.

Why does every mod have to be about the Freelancer universe? After eight years personally i'm sick of the sight of the place. The FL engine is perfectly capable of doing a scenario anywhere imagination can take you, it's all down to the developer of the mod or team making it. I applaud any TC mod as it's a lot of work to finish it, i should know as i've been making mine for years lol

Investigated and solved. Adoxa made a plugin this morning, i've just checked it and it works, he tested it in SP and i did in MP and works as it should. Only minor issue is not plugin related but is down to the explosion on the weapon, i want it to disappear instantly which it's not doing plus the debris parts are spinning, once i figure out a solution to that it will perform as intended.

That's what i think is happening, but i think making it so it does damage to the weapon makes more sense seeing as it's in the weapon entry. Also it would enable what i'm trying to do with these models, which is to turn the weapon into a single fire, one use weapon and destroy the launcher on firing so it disappears from the model, leaving the munition, in my case the torpedo, to fly off into the distance. Would make the whole thing look very realistic and would also have a use for other weapons that haven't been thought of yet.

That would be one possibility i guess. Apparently adoxa has had a look at this issue very briefly, seems the damage_per_fire line isn't working properly in FL. In an ideal world i'd expect it to do damage to the weapon but it's clearly not doing that. Seems FL registers the amount of damage but then doesn't do anything with it.

OP, had a go at this, it all works probably the same as yours BUT, it's not destroying the launcher when you press fire. Here's the code from the launcher,

hit_pts = 0
explosion_resistance = 0
debris_type = debris_normal
parent_impulse = 0
child_impulse = 0
volume = 0
mass = 10
hp_gun_type = hp_gun_special_4
damage_per_fire = 100
power_usage = 0
refire_delay = 0
muzzle_velocity = 10
toughness = 0
projectile_archetype = galahad_torpedo_ammo
dry_fire_sound = fire_dry
separation_explosion = sever_debris
auto_turret = false
turn_rate = 0
lootable = false
LODranges = 0, 5000

Now i was hoping that would do it but clearly not as the launcher is still there and looks like the torpedo is still mounted. Does the damage_per_fire section even do anything?

Also, have a video i'm trying to link to on youtube to visually highlight the problem but TLR freezes everytime i try to post it which is odd. It's viewable on the OTHER SITE