Sexist THNs! Begone!

Argh

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Thursday, May 5th 2005, 1:53am

Man, Cameras are tricky widgets. They really, really, REALLY are a pain to rotate correctly, and HardCMPÂ´s vector results are basically the inverse of what you want- apparantly, they used a right-handed system for one... and a left-handed system for the other. Once I got that... I just set up a 4-light lightset at 45 degree angles opposite one another... and I can just vary their color and brightness depending on the scene. So bye-bye, DA lightsets (thank goodness). My final results for the evening- 3 fully-functional Room THNs featuring the Bretonian Battleship ShipDealer and 2 of the Liberty ShipDealer Decks. ItÂ´s all pretty cool, but IÂ´m leaning more and more towards just building new things... easier to manage. The problem with DAÂ´s stuff is that they purpose-built many of the fancier ones, and only a couple of views really work well- this has to do with the way that their artist was working with light- the Bretonian stuff is very hard to work with, because so few of the views are well-lit enough to put a ship against with some lighting without the whole thing looking off- the Bretonians must have magical infra-red vision or something, because their spaces donÂ´t feel practical. The Liberty stuff, being well-lit throughout, is really pretty easy to work with, and I imagine that the Kusari material will also be pretty simple. Rheinland has the same problems as the Bretonian stuff, though. I think I can build some that are built for a wider range of camera positions... and much, much larger. Think about it... wouldnÂ´t it be cool if we finally had "hangars" large enough for really big ships? I think Aldebaran might have the right idea here... now IÂ´ve just gotta decide if I really, really REALLY feel like making CMPs that complex- texturing them is going to be painful, if I want to match FLÂ´s standards <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> IÂ´ll keep thinking about this, and see if I have any practical alternatives... right now, though, IÂ´m thinking that IÂ´m just going to have to bite the bullet and make some really complicated CMPs, if I want something a little easier to work with. At least then IÂ´ll have total control over issues like where the ceiling is, or whether there is one- itÂ´s so much easier if you can just extend the walls to silly heights, and never reveal it to people by keeping the camera angled appropriately...

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Chips

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Thursday, May 5th 2005, 2:22pm

@Aldebaran28 - as always, I love the work you guys doing. No trumpets, no fanfairs, no bragging - just solid, good old fashioned talent, modding, and implementing new ideas/methods that others then attempt to nick and display as their own. Always a fan

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Aldebaran28

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Thursday, May 5th 2005, 8:48pm

@ Argh: DonÂ´t give upon those different angles of the vanilla Freelancer rooms. Though complete custom rooms are cool, the vanilla freelancer rooms are incredible detailed beyond what most players will ever see, so different angles will show things that

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Argh

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Friday, May 6th 2005, 1:03am

Check this out... this enough variety, Chips? <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> @Aldebaran: Now that I have 3 good light/camera setups (oneÂ´s not on display here- I made it for the Bretonian stuff, which IÂ´ll save as a fun surprise)... I think I may just try for a few custom Rooms. IÂ´m sure I can handle the detail levels... itÂ´s the time commitment. But I need to make at least one for Warriors of the Sky anyhow- the default stuff in there looks... um... outÂ´ve place... and has been a major goal since I started on this mod. Thanks again for helping me unravel this, and feel free to mail me if you want to see all of the scripts that did these <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room1.jpg Â´> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room2.jpg Â´> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room3.jpg Â´> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room4.jpg Â´> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room5.jpg Â´> <img src=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/Room6.jpg Â´>

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Chips

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Sunday, May 8th 2005, 4:14am

Aye, that variety means that you wonÂ´t just immediately recognise the same place again and again etc. Those that donÂ´t pay particular attention will actually not know they are the same as other places... its been very well done. They all look awesome! If you wanted some extra change - just change the lighting colour. A slightly greenish cast over the blue bretonian or bluey white civilian look would yield a more kusari, and different view of the base scenes as well... As always, I love seeing others work - especially in newer areas of modding <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Chips on 5/8/2005 3:16:43 AM

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Outcast 1-1 AKA Talon

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Sunday, May 8th 2005, 7:24am

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>On the topic of big ship rooms, an idea that had occured to me was to build a corridor THN simalar to the HoloNet corridor I had designed (see below) but with a window built in the set and a distant space backdrop and then putting the ship display point in between. This could be used with things like mooring stations for capital stations where only Capital ships could dock at yet you would see your ship hovering outside of the station in the background. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> This could be very useful, as when confronted with placing a VSD in a station, FL decided to do this: <A href=Â´http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=screen247rc.jpgÂ´ Target=_Blank><img src=Â´http://img216.echo.cx/img216/9518/screen247rc.th.jpg Â´></a>

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Accushot

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Sunday, May 8th 2005, 8:05am

On the subject of scene lighting, you can group entities into "Light groups" to get more realistic lighting. A light will only illuminate entities if it has a matching "lt_group" property. This comes in useful when using several lights of different colours, since FLÂ´s approach to light blending seems to be "illuminate objects with any random colour other than the desired one"... <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> DonÂ´t know if youÂ´ve already discovered this - itÂ´s also the cause of many "why the hell wonÂ´t my light work!?!"-type errors if the objects have different light groups. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

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Aldebaran28

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Sunday, May 8th 2005, 8:46am

Do you have a bog standard set of lighting positions (say 3 or 4 lights) that you just move into position by any chance. I didnÂ´t realise that about lighing groups and objects, I shall have to go back over one of my THNÂ´s with that info. Like I said, my lighting knowledge for the ambi side of the THNÂ´s is pretty poor.

Signature from »Aldebaran28« Freeworlds Mod Developer Author of Modular Station `There is no Good nor Evil in the universe, just perceptions and circumstances.`

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Argh

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Sunday, May 8th 2005, 11:46pm

@Aldebaran: Yes, I have developed a standard set of 10 lights - 5 for the ship/station (more in a second) and 5 for the NPCs. <A href=Â´http://www.wolfegames.com/Freelancer/xmltoolkit/THN_EXPERIMENTAL.zipÂ´ Target=_Blank>The code for this light set can

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Aldebaran28

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Monday, May 9th 2005, 1:26am

Thanks for that Argh, very useful knowledge to have when it comes to the THN. And yes, many mods are now adopting having the HPMount situated at the front of a capital ship to get around docking issues. However odd that might seem, it is probably better than having the HPMount in the middle and seeing it in one of those scenes (I think most modders have seen battleships for sale in bases bigger than the room itself). A completely new Shipdealer / Dock THN though could create a dock large enough for even capital ships. Has anyone noticed how weÂ´ve digressed from the topic of conversation though lol. Topics tend to have a habit of moving onto THN coding when myself and Argh are both commenting. We really should work on a Tutorial sometime to get all this knowledged in a fixed location.

Signature from »Aldebaran28« Freeworlds Mod Developer Author of Modular Station `There is no Good nor Evil in the universe, just perceptions and circumstances.`

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harrier

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Wednesday, May 11th 2005, 12:06am

Aldebaran28, Argh, very nice work, very informative and useful.. more please... <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Seriously though, it would be good to see a tutorial done on this.. For some time we have been playing with adding custom planets, with custom planetscapes, and some completely new interiors. I have the custom planet, a basin type planetscape similar to Planet Sprague.. no mineshaft tho... <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle><img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>.. with a central pad similar to California Minor.., with a base set into a cliff face... I think it could look pretty good, a landing sequence like Crete, Malta or Cali Minor would fit fairly well. So far as I know it hasnt been done yet completely from scratch and itÂ´s a pretty big job.. So far pretty much a dream but the work you guys have done would be invaluable. I have not yet started on the interiors tho I dont see correct scale being a huge problem.. some differences from standard freelancer bases would add variety. We also plan to model some new bases from scratch.. If you guys can come together on this I would be pleased to contribute in any way I can.. If either of you is interested either drop me an email or post here.. I can provide some .jpgs of the planet or post them here Harrier Edited by - harrier on 5/10/2005 11:14:38 PM

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Argh

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Wednesday, May 11th 2005, 2:10am

I donÂ´t know nearly enough to do the animations- IÂ´ve been looking other animations, such as in Epsilon, but I donÂ´t really understand this yet. Aldebaran, youÂ´ve coded some takeoff/landing sequences, havenÂ´t you? If so... all I want to know, really, is how to make an object (not the camera) move from Point A to Point B from X time to Y time. If I know that much, IÂ´m sure I could code landing sequences (crude ones to be sure, but eh, whatever...). The code for this is incredibly confusing, though- when I "borrowed" one of Free WorldsÂ´ Intros and re-purposed it for WOS B1, I had to leave the camera code alone, because I couldnÂ´t make head or tail of it <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> If you download the code samples I put up, they should put you on firm ground in terms of the minimal things you need, though- those THNs are a lot cleaner than DAÂ´s work, which contained a bunch of redundancies, and will make implementing a basic Room pretty easy. I havenÂ´t messed with the Camera motion for Equipment Dealers yet- the animationÂ´s even more scary than the code to place things lol...

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Aldebaran28

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Wednesday, May 11th 2005, 5:10am

Ha, I cheated when it came to landing and take off camera motions. The landing and take off motions are contained in seperate THNÂ´s (as you probably know), so I just find a motion from the existing Freelancer files and build my model to suit the animation not the other way around. Crude, but it works. Wasabe might know a bit more about it after doing the intro THNÂ´s, but from I understand, he said he Â´cheatedÂ´ as well on these. Not quite sure how he Â´cheatedÂ´ some of the scenes together, like the Jedi and Bounty Hunter Fighter scene, but still, I reckon he has more of a clue on animations that I do. Yes, we really do need to write a Tutorial for this stuff, the only probably is finding the time to write a tutorial that will explain it clearly enough to people because THNÂ´s are a whole new ball game. Unfortunately, I am moving house within the week and will be with out internet for a couple of weeks, so itÂ´s going to be hard pushed for me to do anything on this front.

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Accushot

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Wednesday, May 11th 2005, 5:24am

@Argh To animate an object and make it move (assuming this object is already defined and called "ship1" ) you need to define the path object (ignore the .Â´s ): ........{ ................entity_name="Path_1", ................type=

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Grit

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Wednesday, May 11th 2005, 4:02pm

ok what im itching for is the new camera angles coming out in thee awsome mods(espeacialy those wicked pictures ive seen) those mods i cant wait for that would be awsome to chat with a storm trooper for example <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>.Please do not tell me how to change the codes i will wait very patintly for these mods and if there are mods out there that have already changed those place to say the x-wing hangar could you tell me where i can locate it and to give it a cooler more used look to it put like the walls are nastier or a little grimy from ship work and blast marks from lifting off the pads to launch or giving it a more grey color to it would realy make it alot easier to the eye and for the SW fans will eat it up <img src=smilies/icon_smile_cool.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>. Show YouÂ´re Strenghts........ YouÂ´ve Earned YouÂ´re Glory.......

Signature from »Grit« Qoute:Hmmm- My spoofy sense is tingling. If something is worth a laugh then its worth your time.

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EcoHooker

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Sunday, June 5th 2005, 12:28am

It would be great with a tutorial on this, i have been reading lots about .thn files, trying to learn something about them. Could you make a thread with all the info you know about .thn files and tutorials on how to edit them? Such as making new intros and new bases, all the work you have done, it would be so great and many new and cooler mods. EcoHooker

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mknote

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Wednesday, June 15th 2005, 11:40pm

I hate to get back on topic, but I have been messing around with a female bartender, and I have gotten some... unusual results, to say the least. For starters, when I first approched her (i.e. she didnÂ´t know me), her head spun 180 degrees, her neck got all twisted, and she starts talking. Then, Trent (who, oddly, isnÂ´t visible like he is normally) comes THROUGH the bar, SIDEWAY, and the barkeepÂ´s head turns impossibly fast to keep up. And it skips large part of the text. If nothing is going on (i.e. an empty talk button over the barkeep), it goes like this: Bartender: Mr. Trent, youÂ´re back. Trent: That canÂ´t be all youÂ´ve got. Cuts to normal bar scene. Odd. Here is my mbase entry for it: [GF_NPC nickname = fw1701_fix_bartender body = pl_female2_journeyman_body head = pl_female6_head lefthand = benchmark_female_hand_left righthand = benchmark_female_hand_right individual_name = 244609 affiliation = gd_z_grp voice = rvp511 bribe = gd_z_grp, 10000, 16103 [MRoom nickname = bar character_density = 4 fixture = fw1701_fix_bartender, Zs/NPC/Bartender/01/A/Stand, scriptsextrasfidget_stand_female_01.thn, bartender Any help here? MK

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Bejaymac

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Thursday, June 16th 2005, 5:57pm

Using the female thnÂ´s for the 3 traders is fine because they donÂ´t have any cut scenes,but the bartender gives you wierd and wacky results. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> To get a female bartender youÂ´ll have to copy,rename and edit one of the bartender thnÂ´s,but then youÂ´ll get the same problem IÂ´ve got,a mute female bartender,DA didnÂ´t program the female voices with as many entries as the male voices. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_sad.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> **shuffles of with a new headache** <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>