ffe, please exercise caution when calling games you like the best ever..
Entropy the real thing!
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never heard of it....what is it about? "To live is to die....but living is to die slowly..why waste time on trivial things just play as hard as you can"
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Dark_Shadow2004 You can read about Entropy, in the Entropy section. (In case you find it hard finding: <A href=´http://www.binstar.com/?page=entropy&PHPSESSID=7cb914f6910da84ee4b6819a3b3fd405´ Target=_Blank> Link </a>) @ff Calling a game "
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Well, maybe it would be better to say that its the game you are most looking forward to. It can come across as somewhat egotistical if you essentially say that the game that you think is the best actually is the best. If you had a large group of knowledgeable people backing up this claim it would be one thing, since you don´t (seem to) I´d stay away from those sorts of statements.
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Oh, you need a crowd? No problem, come to Binstar, join, then watch the crowd of 300 pepole that are wating for this magnifisent project, still dont belive, post a thread about what pepole think about Entropy, somewhat of 100 pepole will post there saying that the game will rock, is that enough of your crowd? or am i misunderstanding what you say? The statements of this project are legal, the project himself (author Eth) is going to be relesed sometime in 2005, shareware or fixed-price, and will be avalible for Mac, Linux and Windows, it´ll take up 400 MB (in theory, as there may be more disk space, depending) The game would feature Endless perecural universe consisting of endless galaxys with thyre own shapes and sizes and life forms, each galaxy will consist of nebules, stars, planetry systems, diffrent types of aliens with thyre own precedural calture, and much more..., if you want more info read the FAQ on HabNet (BTW the ships in the ships-guide are ´NOT´ names from FL´s ships, thay are only some that you may hardly encounter in the game, through the game also will consist diffrent precedural ships, with thyre own names and shapes and fire power). Edited by - AnisoFFE (Frontier) on 12/2/2004 11:16:47 AM
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what kind of supercompressor are they utilizing to get that into 400MB?? for all that, you need at least 40 GB
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Yeah its like Frontier: Elite II in that it can generate a pretty much endless universe which is all pretty much different in every area just in a few hundred KB
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<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>or am i misunderstanding what you say? <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> In a word: yes. I´ll bet there are a lot of games out there that have similar (or much larger) legions of fanboys who would say the very same things about their favourite games. I´d be more impressed if you could bring me a group of relatively unbiased people who are involved in the gaming industry i.e. programmers, reviewers, testers, all people who really <b>know </b> games. If they agreed that this game was the best ever then I´d pay attention. I´m not trying to convince you that this game shouldn´t be your favourite, or the one you most look forward to, or anything like that. Rather I´m trying to show you what a powerful statement "the best game ever" actually is and that it shouldn´t be tossed around casually. Having said all that I must admit that this game does look pretty cool, if somewhat less polished than a professional studio release.
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*Wrinkles nose* Smells like advertising to me.
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*ot* i dont think so eskie, methinks you hit the ginger beer for a few hours last night
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<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>Soon Entropy, (the greatest game ever!) gona touch the light of day on 2005! Come and party on PlanetSide HabNet (http://www.binstar.com)! 300 members allredy joined, what about you? <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2>If that ain´t advertisin´ ff, I don´t know what is (no offence Aniso <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>).
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Erm... at the risk of getting in the middle of a huffy conversation: 1. I don´t see a working binary anywhere. So what´s up is merely fluff and screenies. I´m glad you´re convinced this is the Next Big Thing, but it´s probably not. 2. Programmers of games are *quite* aware of procedural programming methods, thanks. Procedural programming is used for everything from AI to SFX- anything where programmers want to create events with variations, using random numbers and procedural trees. Implying that it´s going to be used to generate an "endless universe" with "endless things to do"... to me, that sounds about as exciting as Battlecruiser 3000AD... which featured the same "endless variety", and was fundamentally very boring. What´s the point of having "endlessness" if it´s all very un-exciting? In a way, this is offering even more junky game design than what plagued Freelancer, which is full of game areas that players hardly visit, except to get from Point A to Point B, and which is full of game objects that are all exactly the same except for their names. If you´re trying to convince me that this programmer is such a complete genius that every alien culture will not only look different, but also have a unique cultural outlook, music, aesthetics, biome... etc... all of the things that human game designers have to create by hand, with great care, to make alien worlds <i>interesting... </i> then either this fellow is the greatest game designer ever... or you´re going to be rather disappointed. And I´m not voting for "greatest game designer ever" until this guy releases a demo to put his bandwidth where his Forum posts are. Right now, all I see is a fairly low-quality graphical experience coupled with a lot of hype and hopeful dreams. Not that these are bad things... I dream about what my mod could be, if I could master all of the techniques I need to and remove all obstacles from my way. But dreams aren´t reality- just as my mod is currently a fairly empty, boring place (with admittedly tight gameplay)... I don´t see much here yet worth getting into a froth over. At any rate... come back when this vaporware becomes something solid. Right now, you´re being needlessly controversial about something that doesn´t even exist yet...
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aniso, if i were you, i´d lay off the heavy siding with this entropy game of yours. im sure it rocks hard and all. then again, i could say the same about a new homeworld game in an X2 forum and they couldn´t give a flying **** about it. and your opinions *will* extremely vary from the next dude that comes along. i could say starcraft mops the floor with CS. but CS fans wont say the same would they? so i strongly suggest laying off the heavy advertising. there will never be a best game ever as no game will satisfy the entire population of a single genre. (let alone all gamers)
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It´s vaporware. Non-released. Non-public. Screenies and hype, without even any code samples, and screenshots of markedly different levels of quality- for example, one of them shows what looks like DOT3 bumpmapping and some near-raytrace-quality lighting, but most look like a 3rd-rate OpenGL engine. When it´s released, it´s real. You seem not to´ve been around as many dev. projects as I have... I´ve seen dozens of games reach this stage and then die, because getting the last 5% done is often the hard part, and debugging is a royal pain. For all we know, it´s just a programmer giving us lots of promises with a tech demo. So yes, it´s vaporware, and I´m not taking that back. And no, I don´t "hate" it... I´m offering my informed opinion, based on nearly a decade of working on games, both video games and traditional boardgames, wargames and RPGs, plus reading through what´s on the game´s website. I´m not going to go there and flame the author, k? I hope the author gets it done, and that it´s much better than it looks, just like you do- for your sake and everybody else who´s convinced that this is going to be super-cool. But I don´t believe that that´s the truth. What I see looks like very hopeful vaporware... that isn´t done, and when it´s done... will probably not be very good. The author is clearly very dedicated to the ideas behind the game, but I don´t see a lot of signs that he/she is focused enough on the <i>game design </i> to make it fun. There´s a huge difference between having clever ideas and some code to execute them... and having a good game design. What I see thus far sounds a lot less impressive (as a game) than something built with a lot of human art and careful game design elements in it. For example, who cares if there are billions of places to fly, if they´re empty of anything of interest? I mean... it´s not like there are going to be aliens that can have new conversations, for example- even the best AI researchers on earth can´t do that yet. So it´s just going to be more of the same... with different fractal height and mipmaps around the planets... oooh, that´s exciting... not. Even when Battlecruiser 3000AD was finally (mainly, kind´ve) bug-free... it was still an <i>absolutely terrible game design </i>. It was empty-feeling and uninteresting, and ultimately... I felt like I was mainly being pigeonholed by Erik Smart into a role that was neither fun nor intellectually stimulating <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Nobody has to agree with me here, of course- I know that some people loved that game, and many others I´ve not enjoyed. I´ll be the first to say that I´m extremely picky <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> This game shows all of the same signs of overweening ambition and lack of common sense. Building "endless gaming" is a waste of time- if you´re not focused on the gameplay elements (which are, and always will be, constrained by finite rules)... you´re just building an empty simulation of nothing going nowhere, fast. Who <i>cares </i> if eventually you can be the Grand Poohbah of Planet no. 1,399,132,311 in the "endless universe"? Nobody will ever visit you (the author even has a screenie demonstrating that this is extremely unlikely), and the aliens you´re the Poohbah of aren´t going to be interesting... so who cares? Not me, that´s for sure... Freelancer is a good game design with flaws. There´s a difference. Freelancer could be fixed, and modders have already fixed many of its problems. They´ve added more interesting gameplay, made existing Factions more interesting to interact with, and generally improved the existing game... or they´ve gone as far as the Freeworlds mod team, and built a whole new experience (which, imho, is superior in many respects to the original, in terms of completeness).
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ROFL. Ok... enough... 1. I am not a FL fanboy. I´ve critiqued it pretty sharply in various places around here, and I don´t think it´s the Best Game Ever (my vote´s split between Civ 1, Quake 1 Fallout and Total Annihilation for that title). 2. You´re getting negative remarks because what you´re saying flies in the face of common sense. Procedural programming techniques aren´t going to create the same kind of coherent magic you see in a commercial title with dozens of artists working towards a common goal. I´m sorry, but that´s just the truth- random numbers <> art... 3. Saying you hate "hand-coded"... you should hate Entropy too... <laughs>. It´s "hand-coded" just like everything else is. What makes it special is the amount of random noise the system uses to generate new rulesets, not that it´s "hand-coded". And saying you don´t like "hand-coded" games... even if I accept your nebulous definition at face value... means that you didn´t like Grand Theft Auto... or Half-Life... or ... I think we´re seeing a trend here, so I´ll stop. 4. You act like it´s going to be awesome, and you haven´t even played it. You titled your thread "the best game ever"... and then expected us to leave you be? C´mon guy... do you invest in bridges? Cuz I just happen to own several very nice ones, and I´d love to sell them to you for a very nice price <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> All computer games are based on rules. All of them have limits. Some seem to have "fewer" than others... and sometimes that´s a good thing, but in most cases, it just results in a game design that´s sloppy and unfocused. Freelancer´s saving grace, imho, was its single-player campaign... which was very tight. But let´s think about this whole "hand-coded" thing a little more: Some day, we´ll have a perfect simulation. It´ll look like the real world, act like the real world... it´ll be like Life itself. It´ll be perfect, and full of the random chance that creates Change in the real world. And then people will complain about not being able to fly, and that´ll be added. And then people will want to be able to stage Alien Invasions, complete with Little Green Men... and that´ll be added. Things will get added, forever... but they will <i>always follow rules </i>. Always. The rules may get so complicated that human beings can only program them by sitting down with an AI and patiently describing them to the AI until it "gets it", and implements the millions of rules that result in the desired experience... but there will be rules. Humans may not be able to comprehend their subtleties... there won´t be any definative Strategy Guides (except for the ones written by AIs, which will be incomprehensible to people)... but there will be rules. Whether or not the <i>rules are any good </i> depends on somebody making judgements about "what is good", and then implementing it. And then dodging hate mail from everybody who disagrees <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> And that´s just all there is to it. So... uh... get over it. What Elf´s doing is neither revolutionary nor unique- I´ve seen projects like his dozens of times, some of which have even seen the light of day. And hopefully, if it´s released (I´m not going to say "when", because that´s asking too much from a realist)... it won´t suck as a game. And you´ll be happy with the empty planets, the missions that all look the same, and the other limitations imposed by the rules.
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