Getting FL Source Code: Have we really tried everything?

A year or two ago, someone tried to "pressure" Microshit into releasing the source code by getting over 200+ people to electronically sign a petition asking for it. We still don't have it.

I personally thought I had found it when I dissembled a bunch of the .dll files. Needless to say, I was close, but not in a readable language.

Legally, MS has the source code to Freelancer under tight legal wrap so any attempts at trying to get to it will result in immediate law suit. The closest thing that has happened to what you've said was the appearance of FLCore and FLHook.

I'd add to that with something simple: it's not about permissions, it's about simply HAVING the source at all. There is no way anyone can actually "find" or "hack" the source code. You not only need Microsoft's permission, you need Microsoft's full cooperation on willingly giving the source code to someone.

well generaly, what would source code help?

Unless you can program, the source will be useless. If you wanted to edit it as is you would need to know assembly since that is the only way to decompile it atm (as Alpha pointed out).

Or you can do like I'm doing, write your own FL style game.

i know what ur saying LS as well as OP, ur pointing out makes totally different weight of question asked, generaly ppl look for source code for moding it, however
freelancer is so open that i dont see no real need for exe source for modding it, also imho exe itself is excellent programmed, altho i cant judge it by code since theres none, i can obeserve it by external parametars.
here are my reasons to think that not much (if any) is possible to b done eaven if source was avaible.
-all necessery physics are there, both in intertial and fluid enviroment
-it runs on low end processors like p1, all load is pass through to gpu, which means thats propperly directed
-network engine very clean, almost no load on server, objects possitions are only transfered, calaculations are done partialy client partialy server.

for all those reasons i dont see what else can b done to engine itself

Well, I can see some points.
Firstly, with the source code we can find out how warping, jammers and all that stuff works.
Secondly, maybe we could implement support for more than one sector, opening a whole new bunch of possibilities.
Thirdly, we could improve physics by making the engine use relative coordinates for this instead of absolute coordinates (I´m no programmer, so I can´t say HOW difficlut this would be).

And for a question: How long did Microsoft wait to release the Starlancer source code?

Well, along those lines a few things could be added in. You are correct in that the exe is written quite well, it does perform in MP alot better than almost every other game out there.

A few additions could be done such as...
- Dynamic markets
- More than 3 ships per base
- FL Hook style commands built in instead of having to type them into the console
- Better anti-cheat code
- Surface support (as in a FPS style play)

Just a few of the top of my head...

Don't forget player automatic turrets, and true hiring of wingmen. Interface additions galore. I suppose we could hire a hacker......nawwww

@LW
i totaly agree with you, however i it is NOT at all my point, i will try to explain on example

this means no offence... at all
like Conzul said....
...true wingman... ...

just imagine how long would take single person to code AI of artifitial wingman, yes that can b done by source but it is not small project for single codder, it requiers team, possibly organisation with previous expirinace in codding simmilar things, like using company resources/informations/althoritams...
and what we get.... 'if we only had source .. to code in artifictial wingman' .... well its not sourcecode thats missing, its whole structure missing to code in AI wingman which would supersade original one, that source code is MINOR thing comparing to task of coding AI wingman...

dont get me wrong, im saying thins only for pourpouse not to mislead ppl into going into 'we want source' coz of thinking that source is needed for mods, im saying this not to mislead new persons on forums to thin there is some 'mayor fault' which would turn them off moding ... and turn them into w8ing for source code.

eaven source is released and publiced to us, just try to think how long would take all coders on this forum to get meaning of code itself, it would b taking months and months to get where what how is done, with low chance that it could actually can b coded in better way...

again, im not at all against having sources, however only fiew ppl could actually could do something with it, and it would have huge drawback in majority w8ing for 'illusive code' and therefor be actually mislead that code is needed for modding.

freelancer itself is totaly open to any artwork, any ammount of data... etc

To be frankly honest about it, we would be far better off
developing a completely new game using an open source
code and game engine.
I'd love to be able to dig into the meat of the FL game
engine without the worry of lawsuits. But, for now that just
isn't going to happen and it's not going to happen any time
soon.
But, what in the heck would I want the source code for
anyway? If I were going to go to THAT length of trouble,
I would be better off just writing a whole brand new
space sim game.
For the love of Freelancer, leave the source lay and just
mod it for what it's worth as far as you can take it.

Maybe it's time to really start thinking outside the box....
outside of Freelancer. Move on to something more
inventive, grand, accurate and with a lot more "vision" of
the future of possibilites that many of you haven't even
dreamed of.
You wanted to do a lot of things to make a "sequal" to it.
(remember the "wish list"?).

Freelancer was quickly "thrown together" by a team who;
with purpose designed a game that was easy to learn and
basically "fun to fly". A lot of work went into the voice
characterizations to give it a dimension solely unique
to freelancer. (Tacyon: The Fringe comes pretty close to
a unique voice characterization..but not quite like
Freelancer)

IF (that's a very big word) the source code is ever going to
be released, most of you will probably be 10-15 years older.

Anyone with programming sense can just about figure out
what the source code is by looking at the files it calls upon
for instances. The engine has to be simple, not nearly as
complex as you could be thinking it is.
Be that as it may, it's still a copywrited item belonging to MS.

Ahoy
In the past years i tryed 5 times to find solutions for that Problem.
Everytime i had an Idea, i thought about it, made me a List (with brilliant arguments lol) and called Ms.
Last Time they even remembered my Name...so u might guess i had a few long conversations.
I guess i was not the only one with that idea, its been discussed on other forums, servers and stuff.
As far as i know.
Ms is handelin Freelancer as an "Retro Title" and they are not willed to support any work on it nor do they want to give the concept away.
They do not research for mods which change too much on it, simply because it would take too much work and well payed lawyers (but u´ll never know).
And they are not willed to discuss new ideas or possibillities, at least atm.

I suggest to go on moddin and hope for a change in the nxt years but i wont count on it.
Nowadays, the techs are raisin very fast and if ur serious thinkin u´ll come to the end that it wont make sense to recode Freelancer (exept us havin fun with it).
People already nailed it, there are still many ways to change the Game by moddin it.
Just think of a Team which would get a "best of" of parts of many different mods together.
That would change things...take dynamics here, textures here, changed economics there, written and tested and again overritten codelines there, design there and the minor shipstuff.
There u have ur Mod (not that it would be thaaaaat easy but still a possibillity).
There are some upcomin Titles which look promisin, i saw many of the old Freelancer peeps on several projects.
Look at Games like Jumpgate Evolution, Vendetta Online...some of the devs played Fl, know it and got inspired in there.
We will get our Freelancer II but it will have a new face and Name.

Greetz,
Mörser out

I tend to agree with Mörser on this one, especially since I am in the middle of writing a game similar to Elite, Freelancer and Civilization combined. Writing MODs and using tools like FLHook and FLShell to extend the abilities of FL is probably your only choice for some time to come.

BTW, has anyone considered the license MS had to sign with Havok to use their physics engine. That is another reason they can't release the code. Plus the part of the server access code is from the old Gun server MS used to run, I seriously doubt they will give that part away either (thats what the gundll.dll is for).

One other thing is, how many here really are code gurus? Remember the guy who started DA wrote Wing Commander... If you are that good you should be able to write your own game. There are many open source 3D game engines out there such as Ogre that would be well suited to making your own single player FL style game. Plus there are several multiplayer 3D engines out there that you could even build into a MP style FL game.

It would be real nice if we could extend FL to include stuff like in Galaxy Empire such as dynamic markets and planet surfaces, but without the source, we are all stuck with what we have.

There´s one more point I´ve found. With the source code for the rendering engine maybe we could make a WYSIWYG system editor.

Hi all. We us freelancer fans have been on about the sorce code for a fuew years now. And to be honest theres no way ms will relace the sorce code. But if you are a true fl palyer by now you should know that you can do so much with fl vanilla as a hole.

Take guys like Gibbon of Phinex mod. All he did was go in to the code sort out bugs and what do you know found new wepons and ships and alot more other stuff that was in the freelancer code its self. If you have any idea about codeing or moding you should know its easy to read and know waht the code is as someone said on an erleyer post.

Never the less been able to dock on piegar in multy player rocks couse its as it is in the singel player. I hope I haven,t been rude here or step on anyones toes. All I'm saying is with frelancer you can do so much.

I think that MS is all about money and intellectual property and I agree with Lancer Solarus ( nice update to your site and a great site Digital Brilliance ) That if any sequel is going to come about its going to have to be done on its own

And actually having true joystick support built right in to the Options as it is with most flight games,Plus a better graphics engine one that will make use of the newer graphic cards, and cpu threads that are coming out Pluss there are a lot of hard coders out there, some that play the game, it takes a little coding just to make a mod for this game,it's not like stalker the game devs after a year of it being out gave the modders the source tools to make mods of the game and that by itself drove up the followings of the game till it's next release and there are even complete story line mods there are allso modds that they have changed parts of or added to the options and controls in the game, that was one of the reasons i had ask about the joysyick mods, to see if anyone had implemented one,but good people here like MrEd,Knifeand many others have been a big help in that department :)And besides stalker uses ltx files for modding,really fairly easy to change or make modds with,but still alot of work as i've spent countless weeks and hours modding those type of files,i wonder if it's possible to mod freelancer using ltx and then converting them to ini files .Now stalker uses an neat gaming engine,it's a chaos engine and the game is always changing,you can go thrugh and area and come back and it's changed diff. npc's shooting or making war on other AI npc's and you can get in the fray to,though this game is really about a lot of stealth to,you have to be neaky(whoops there i go wandering off again)any way i like the vanilla game and some of the mods, i just wished it had the second ver. that finished the story line,from the frist ver if you get my space drift :mrgreen: