24/7 Seattle Based BEWARE

Firstly: Please spell my name correctly; you´ve already deleted the 24/7-Seattle-Based-compliant version of its spelling, so you should already be one-up without having to even look how it is spelled above. Secondly: &quot;An intellectual property is any product of the human intellect that is unique, novel, and unobvious (and has some value in the marketplace).&quot; as according to the University of Texas at Arlington´s Office of Technology Transfer. Yes, you have intellectual property stored on your server. Thirdly: It was not my intent to discredit your service to the Freelancer community with this thread, but to make certain that those who use your server are VERY aware of your rules, and more importantly your totalitarian attitude, as displayed above, etc. BEFORE you delete their account because their name did not fit your guidelines. Your rules, as stated (and for the FOURTH TIME, yes I read them THROROUGHLY before playing and made EVERY attempt to abide by them; let´s not personalize this too much, please) have some definate areas that are open to interpretation. <img src=´http://www.kl-5.net/vr6/screen2.jpg ´> It should simply be stated that &quot;NO NUMBERS are allowed in the names of this server except to designate rank.&quot; Period. Lastly: I do indeed have my own server, however my naming convention does not allow for letters, unfortunately; you´d be disappointed. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Seriously, I do, however I am using many changing mods with a limited number of ppl, and it is therefore passworded to limit the amount of headache that would insue for ALL if I opened it up... versions, unauthorized mods, etc. But that is not what is at hand here.. Your server is the ONLY server I have <b>ever </b> taken issue with, for the record, publically or no: the only one. You and I might have had a nice and friendly email exchange that I courteously initiated, but we have now come to public forum. I am not brining to issue other servers in the community; I am not brining to issue anything other than this warning to the community about your server and to make even <b>clearer, your own rules. </b> Consider this a service to you and do not presume to personally demean me, or any other that brings grievances to light in good faith. Fly friendly. &quot;Too the last, I grapple with thee...&quot; -Melville Edited by - 0bSiDe0 on 29-07-2003 01:10:03

So if I were to choose the name of THX-1138 or Catch_22 or Fahrenheit_451 the titles of some good movies and legitimate character names, or if I were with a group that used number designations like Alpha_1 or Ranger_3 I could look forward to my character being deleted? I Don´t know what your problem is with numbers but that part of your naming rule is absurd, but it´s your server, run it as you please, all Hail ze Fuhrer.

[coughtrolls[/cough <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> ur server rox dude, every once in a while we get little lag issues but nothing serious, and thats the worst i can say about it <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> . lol i feel sry for the poor bastard that cant even understand simple rules <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> . rather than trying to find some obscure technicality, y dont u just read the rules and go by what they say? any dumbass can figure out what he meant <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> . writing is a form of communication - just like speech. and the point of communication is to convey ideas - the rules seem to have conveyed the right ideas to everyone else; are you just looking to piss ppl off, or are you REALLY just so stupid that you cant figure it out? ty have a nice day <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

Why is it so hard to understand why I posted this, Admiral.. I DID READ the rules and went by what they said - that is my freaking POINT, man. My name on the server was spelled &quot;0bsideo&quot;, and it was deleted. Can you tell me why? It was deleted along with the hours and cooperative play I´d put into it - that´s my only beef and I´m not trying to flame the server or it´s admin except to say that if the rules aren´t put down more clearly then this will happen to others - I´m simply trying to prevent that. &quot;NO NUMBERS are allowed in the names this server&quot; is a more apt way to put it. Nice to meet you, btw, Admiral; I don´t have choice names to call you at this time. Edited by - 0bSiDe0 on 29-07-2003 01:41:13

I went &quot;out of my way to circumvent or find a loophole&quot;? What?? Are you serious? I was &quot;PLAYING&quot;, friend, NOT trying to bring down your precious rules; I chose a name that looked compliant and left it at that and launched to space. Give me a break. <i>&quot;Just mainly not #´s that replace letters. Pretty Straight forward if you read the rules with that one. </i> Great! Say THAT! Just leave out &quot;mainly&quot;... are there still mainly some folks who mostly don´t have numbers in their name? This is what I´m getting at - I did not mean to break your rule and think I was wronged because of it. I don´t use cheats so it takes awhile to build up a character, ya know? Genedefect, you are not hearing anything I´ve said and you do not know me whatsoever; I have tried to be as polite as possible in this whole matter from the very begining - read my original requests for help and email to you. I am not a modder/cheater/etc, in fact I was looking for a server relatively free from that crap... but you say that &quot;a hidden point of my rules seems to have worked quite well in this case.&quot; That´s beautiful- just lovely; quite the reverse is the case, actually, friend. Now you are just coming across as smug/snide/&amp;unreasonble, so I suppose MY super-secret hidden point in posting this thread is shining through in spades as well. Whatever. Thanks for all your help, time, and good nature. Just plain nevermind - enjoy your kingdom, King. &quot;Too the last, I grapple with thee...&quot; -Melville Edited by - 0bSiDe0 on 29-07-2003 02:54:27 Edited by - 0bSiDe0 on 29-07-2003 03:01:32

Just to point something out, my first and only character on this server was banned a long time ago. Name was a51falcon, the a51 being a part of an old clan tag. I barely got above lvl 10 before I was banned, so it could have only been the name. Im sick of seing these threads on the forums. If you are like me, and dont like genedefect or his server, STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM IT! You is this so hard to grasp?

Feel free to run your own server and come up with all the rules you like to your hearts content. I will not dsit idlely by and read people complaining about the stance a FL Server Admin takes on their server. It´s a respect issue, at least for me. And since this is a public forum, someone has to defend their rights to run their server any dang way they feel. <b> It IS their house, remember that </b>

I would say that since the players and admins both are what make up this community (and again I do run my own - tho certainly not of this magnitude) then either should be able to voice a greviance without fear of repproach. I am NOT complaining about Genedefect´s stance as an admin and right to set up whatever rules he chooses - I am ONLY stating that the rules are not entirely clear (as many posts on this forum can attest to); make them clearer (I would happily write out these for you, GD, and submit them for your approval) and this kind of thing will happen much less frequently. Both of your points are taken, Stinger, Falcon, and well. Again, I was trying to be respectful, though maybe not completely successfully, in the face of entire disrespect, being called things that I am not, being told I believe in ways I DO not, and behave in ways I shall not; all because a set of misspelled server rules we´re not clear enough to point out that I couldn´t have a zero in my name and I took issue. lol I´ll not be replying to this thread any longer as I´ve said my peace. They say respect begets respect and courteousy - courteousy.. I´m always hoping that is the case. To any I´ve offended, my apologies; was not my intent. If you need to kick the crap out of my drake, you´ll find me on Geezers or Elite. Cheers. &quot;Too the last, I grapple with thee...&quot; -Melville Edited by - 0bSiDe0 on 29-07-2003 19:20:21

Admiral says. &quot;the rules seem to have conveyed the right ideas to everyone else&quot; If you care to read other threads on this topic and look at the servers banning statistics, you will see that their are many people that have been in very similar situations. 0bSiDe0, I´m sure you have many silent people that support your side. When an admin screws you over, you have the right to voice your greavance. I think you also have the right to warn others that may fall into the same trap. Regulator Edited by - Regulator on 29-07-2003 21:12:55

The server statistics that I am referring to are the ones that you posted on the forum yourself. You have announced the number of active/banned accounts etc. in another thread. The one that I remember is 4500 active and 600 banned. That is a 1/8.5 banned/active ratio. He was trying to comply with your rules. If you look at his screen shot of your rules and keep an open mind, you can see how he might have thought that he could put a 0 instead of an O in his name. Your examples are bad names and definately violate your rule, but his name looks nothing like a collection of numbers that would be &quot;annoying&quot; as you put it in another thread. It was obviously an unintentional violation and a communication mistake. Give him the benefit of the doubt. He had good intentions. The reason that I speak up about this stuff is my nature to fight for the under-dog. I also hate it when others unnecessarily screw up others. He was creating his toy on your toy server. You didn´t like his name, so you destroyed his toy all together. I think he is doing a good thing by warning others. Players should be very careful about your rules and advertising this keeps others from suffering consequences that they do not see coming. Regulator PS It is difficult to see from your point of view, as it is difficult for you to see from the players point of view. I think we should have some respect for eachothers opinions.

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>...Also, a hidden point of my rules seems to have worked quite well in this case... ..On the Other hand, say you did read the rule (like you) and intentially went out of your way to find a loophole or circumvent said rule, what is to say you won´t also try to do so when playing on the server when it comes to mods/cheats or other rules? <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> What was this about then? Nada nunca.

i use max_RAF and viper_RAF as names for my chars... are those OK?

Well, it can be assumed that many people don´t read server-specific rules when they log in anyway. Usually if you don´t pk in NY, don´t mod, don´t make racial slurs, don´t dock-camp etc. you are good to go. The banning (or even deleting without warning) punishments are completely out of proportion to the crime. It´s much like a country having the death penalty for going 60 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. It may be written in the law but come on get a grip. It is reasonalbe to expect the punishment to fit the crime. It seems like a player doing anything to attract the unwanted attentions of the admin is an instant recipe for the loss of their time. That is the ultimate punishment. In fact it is the same punishment meted out to cheaters. Deletion is no different than banning when it comes down to it, since after a player loses his lvl 38+ character I highly doubt he will ever be back :p There are about 10,000 ways for the admin to control naming conventions if he wished. Warning a character that he has 3 days to transfer to another character/cheange his name would do the trick. Instead, the character gets the axe? I´m sorry. I don´t think that the admin has the 100% right to do whatever he wishes without repercusion. A server is a group project. It is owned and operated by the admin, but is absolutely puposeless and non-functional without players. Take away the players and all you have is a lonely admin with an overpriced connection and so much scrap server hardware rusting away. As players, we have a right to warn other players that the admin is a Nazi. I have never played on Seattle, but was thinking of doing so. I may in fact STILL do so. But I am forwarned that my time and effort means nothing to the Nazi-admin, and I am thankful for that forwarning. And PS: With a ban ratio of 1:8.5 there is a serious problem. If you Gene imagine that 1 out of every 8.5 players is deserving of a ban, then you are smoking some really good product. There is a problem with your system. Either it is in the way you have stated the rules, or it is in the way you have carried out the punishment. 1 to 8.5 is not an acceptable statistic IMO. If a police force has a statistic like that the administration of that force would be fired. The objective should be to deter crime, not to maximize your opportunity to mete out puishment.

Gung Ho says several things I would like to address from a server admin point of view.... &quot;Well, it can be assumed that many people don´t read server-specific rules when they log in anyway.&quot; This is probably true in most cases, but the responsibility is ultimately on the players, not the server admins at that point. Ever here of a EULA? You know the ones nobody reads but are legally bound by the contents contained within once you click on the accept button? In Freelancer you´re warned twice on servers with rules posted, once when you initiate the MP of the game itself and secondly when you click on a server with posted rules. Ignoring the responsibility the users has is nothing but an excuse, pure and simple. You try that on a EULA and see how well this excuse holds water and tell me how that works out for you. &quot;There are about 10,000 ways for the admin to control naming conventions if he wished. Warning a character that he has 3 days to transfer to another character/cheange his name would do the trick. Instead, the character gets the axe?&quot; This is completely out of the question from a server admin standpoint. You really expect an admin to sit there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and monitor their server just waiting on the person to log in so they can chat? How many people do you think we´re potentially talking aobut here out of the thousands of players on a big server? The time involved does NOT justfiy this &quot;option.&quot; &quot;As players, we have a right to warn other players that the admin is a Nazi.&quot; First of all, the coorelation between the Nazi´s and server admins is WAAAY out of line..but I digress. If this is turly the stance you want to take, then fair is fair and the server admins also have the same right to communicate with each other and essentially ban earmarked players accordingly ensuring they don´t get on any server because they screwed up once....right? &quot;The objective should be to deter crime, not to maximize your opportunity to mete out puishment.&quot; The OBJECT should be to provide a clean server for the masses, not cater to the whimes of an individual in spite of the others who accept playing within the server rules. You make some good points Gung Ho, but you can not have your cake and eat it too. When you talk about what is right and fair, you´re presepective appears to be slanted towards the one side and that being the players. It looks like your stance in regards to the server admins is &quot;screw em&quot; we´re <b> entitled </b> to have our way no mattter what. <b> remember, the servers represent the homes of the admins </b> It´s widely accepted in every corner of the globe that &quot;when in Rome, do as the Romans do.&quot; Making up your own rules and expecting everyone´s compliance is a pipe dream.

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>First of all, the coorelation between the Nazi´s and server admins is WAAAY out of line..but I digress. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica´ size=2> Right. It really should have been phrased: &quot;As players, we have a right to warn other players that the admin is has displayed, in our view, some characteristics, that to some, may indeed resemble a person or persons, loosely or closely affiliated with the Nazi party, at least in certain aspects of their observed behavior.&quot; Nada nunca.

I think everyone understands both sides and both sides have good points. Genedefect also understands the players point of view, he is just a very harsh punisher. He has a wipe clean philosophy. &quot;When in Rome, do as the Romans do.&quot; Correct. It just helps to know what Romans do, so you can comply. Here is an additional way for Genedefect to get the word out about his rule. Argonia-Station has a Console message (I´m pretty sure it is automatic)that shows up every few minutes. The name rule can be stressed in an auto-console message. The only problem with this, is that it gets annoying. If it was once every 2 hours or so, that would help a bunch. Cooperation between admins in banning is not bad at all. If a persistant cheater arises, then ban them together. &quot;remember, the servers represent the homes of the admins &quot;-Stinger This is true and I do not argue against this at all. I just think that courtesy and understanding should be afforded to new guests. When you get a new guest in your house and he invests his time and money to set up his bed, it is kinda hurtful to kick him out on the street because you don´t like his name. He may have missed the sign on the door on his way in that says &quot;Your name my not sound like &quot;###&quot;, to be accepted in.&quot; In addition, he may have had plans to improve your home as a thankyou, by putting a sunroof in or whatever, which is like a player that would create events. I believe in <b>&quot;Justice for All&quot; </b> You can see that other admins do as well by looking at this thread link. <A href=´http://www.lancersreactor.org/t/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18896&amp;FORUM_ID=19&amp;CAT_ID=3&amp;Topic_Title=illegal+banning&amp;Forum_Title=Freelancer+Multiplayer+Forum&amp;M=False&amp;S=True´ Target=_Blank>Examples of nice admins helping to promote justice for all.</a> This is how admins should treat disgruntled players. Hear their case, and investigate if you have the time. Or atleast be respectful to them and explain nicely why they got banned or deleted. Calling them cry-babies and telling them what they should have done is not very productive. It just causes flame wars. Regulator